Grant FuellenbachNov 9, 2025
Avi Kaufman | Building the Future Lot by Lot 🏠
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Avi Kaufman | Building the Future Lot by Lot 🏠
Grant Fuellenbach
Avi Kaufman reveals how Future Lot transforms 4-week zoning research into 8-minute AI-powered analysis for ADU builders. Discover why homeowners stay on builder websites 8 minutes instead of 8 seconds, how to qualify leads before wasting site visit time, and the exact layers of data (flood zones, wildland interface, topography, setbacks) that separate profitable ADU projects from money pits. This demo-heavy conversation shows the future of construction lead qualification.
Key Topics Covered:
Why zoning complexity creates a $91K+ annual loss for ADU specialists
The 50-to-2,000-page PDF problem municipalities create for builders
How AI analyzes municipal bylaws, state rules, wetlands, historic preservation, and hazard zones simultaneously
The "8 minutes vs 8 seconds" website engagement revolution for builder marketing
Live demo: Studio Pro tool showing California property with multiple hazard layers
Pre-feasibility screening that impresses homeowners from first conversation
Light vs Pro versions: lead generation widget vs full zoning analysis
Multi-generational housing trends driving ADU demand (Silver Tsunami impact)
Hiring framework: paid trial days to evaluate problem-solving approach
Future Lot's expansion plan: California and New England now, nationwide soon
Avi Kaufman | Building the Future Lot by Lot 🏠
Grant Fuellenbach
Avi Kaufman reveals how Future Lot transforms 4-week zoning research into 8-minute AI-powered analysis for ADU builders. Discover why homeowners stay on builder websites 8 minutes instead of 8 seconds, how to qualify leads before wasting site visit time, and the exact layers of data (flood zones, wildland interface, topography, setbacks) that separate profitable ADU projects from money pits. This demo-heavy conversation shows the future of construction lead qualification.
Key Topics Covered:
Why zoning complexity creates a $91K+ annual loss for ADU specialists
The 50-to-2,000-page PDF problem municipalities create for builders
How AI analyzes municipal bylaws, state rules, wetlands, historic preservation, and hazard zones simultaneously
The "8 minutes vs 8 seconds" website engagement revolution for builder marketing
Live demo: Studio Pro tool showing California property with multiple hazard layers
Pre-feasibility screening that impresses homeowners from first conversation
Light vs Pro versions: lead generation widget vs full zoning analysis
Multi-generational housing trends driving ADU demand (Silver Tsunami impact)
Hiring framework: paid trial days to evaluate problem-solving approach
Future Lot's expansion plan: California and New England now, nationwide soon
Chapters
00:00
Intro
00:07
Welcome & Future Lot
01:11
The Zoning Problem
03:00
Builder Advantages
06:06
Housing Crisis Motivation
11:33
Studio Pro Demo
17:25
Homeowner Engagement
22:00
Business & AI Insights
26:15
Connect with Future Lot
Transcript
00:00
you're an ADU builder, here's your weekly problem.
00:03
Ten homeowners call about backyard units.
00:05
You spend four hours researching zoning for each one and three weeks later, seven of those lots are dead on arrival.
00:13
Wetlands setback violations, fire hazards, all things that kill the deal.
00:19
That's 28 wasted hours.
00:22
At your actual rate, that's $5,000 in burn capacity every single week.
00:28
Today's guest solved this.
00:30
Avi Kaufman built Future Lot, an AI that reads 2000 page municipal PDFs and analyzes flood zones, topography and hazard layers in under two minutes.
00:42
Builders use his tools and are seeing homeowners go from eight second bounces on their websites to eight minute engagement sessions where they actually pre qualify themselves.
00:53
We're doing a live demo on a California property with multiple hazard layers.
00:57
If you're losing deals because you can't respond fast enough, this episode has that solution.
01:03
I'm Grant Follenbach.
01:04
This is beyond the bid.
01:06
Let's go.
01:06
You're listening to Beyond the Bid, the show by GO First, where we share the systems, strategies and practical AI for builders.
01:13
Keep listening to learn how to win more of the right projects, boost profitability and scale.
01:17
Beyond the Bid.
01:18
All right, and welcome back to beyond the Bid.
01:21
Today, I'm super excited.
01:22
We have Avi Kaufman.
01:24
thanks so much for being here.
01:25
Avi.
01:25
you're.
01:25
You're able to join.
01:26
Thank you, Grant.
01:27
I'm very excited to be here and to continue the conversation with you.
01:30
Thank you.
01:30
Absolutely.
01:31
I know you guys have had a really big week, with the new brand rollout.
01:35
That's right, yes.
01:36
How's that going?
01:37
How's Future Lot?
01:38
It's great.
01:39
We're really excited with the new name.
01:41
we were the builder AI and now we're Future Lot, and it's an easier name to pronounce.
01:46
It's the same team, same mission, but just bigger vision.
01:49
Our tagline is we're building the future lot by lot.
01:52
I love that.
01:53
That's.
01:53
That's perfect.
01:54
Thank you.
01:56
yeah, so I guess, you know, for those who, who haven't had a chance to, like, explore your website or, you know, or who don't know you, can you give us a quick, you know, real quick overview of what you guys are working on, what your mission is, what you're doing?
02:07
at a.
02:07
At a high level, we have a problem in the US with housing.
02:11
And.
02:11
And part of it is that zoning is just super complicated.
02:14
It's not the only reason, but it's one of the reasons that if you want to know, can I build something on this lot?
02:20
It's just.
02:20
It's a long process to even figure that out.
02:23
Every municipality has their own zoning bylaw.
02:26
They're all between 50 and a couple thousand pages of PDF.
02:29
They were built layer by layer.
02:31
If you call a builder and say, can I build an ADU here?
02:34
am I allowed to do it?
02:35
The answer is.
02:36
Let me check.
02:36
Let me call the planning.
02:37
Let me get back to you in four.
02:38
Between four hours and four weeks.
02:40
and so that's our mission, is to help you answer the question of, what are you allowed to build quicker?
02:45
And to help builders do that more easily?
02:48
remember to get back to you.
02:50
Right, right.
02:51
Well, that's the thing, is a lot of builders lose their leads, and, the homeowners get frustrated, the builders get frustrated.
02:58
And really, the answers to these questions should be relatively straightforward.
03:02
Either this structure is allowed on this property or it's not.
03:05
And, you know, every town can have their rules, but you should have them be clear and transparent.
03:10
And so we're that layer in between where we're trying to translate those documents for the builders and also bringing in other information like the special hazards.
03:17
You know, there's, there's at different level of entities, there's the municipal bylaws, but there's also state level rules, there's wetlands, there's historic preservation, there's, you know, talking about California and the layers there.
03:29
You know, there's earthquakes, tsunamis, fire hazard, everything.
03:32
And it doesn't necessarily preclude you from building, but you need to know that from the first moment what those red flags might be.
03:38
100%.
03:39
Yeah.
03:40
in the future you wanted to build on a property or a lot before you even purchased it.
03:46
Like knowing that data ahead of time.
03:49
Yeah.
03:49
Or certainly at least knowing.
03:50
Is this something that I should even put the time into exploring further?
03:55
We're an AI company, we're sourcing lots of different public data.
03:59
We're combining it, we're doing analysis on it and giving you that quick answer.
04:03
so that at least you know, if you're looking at 10 lots, 100 lots, if you're a builder that specializes in accessory dwelling units, you're getting calls constantly.
04:10
You need to know these are the ones that have promise and these are the ones that don't.
04:14
so you need that quick answer before you do that four hour of research.
04:18
absolutely, yeah.
04:19
you know, have a model or some type of tool that would automatically help you prioritize.
04:24
hey, you know, these ones are the, the green flag.
04:27
Here's your red flag.
04:28
And you should probably create a real, start some type of relationship with the, the people who currently own the lots.
04:34
Exactly, exactly.
04:36
Or if you're, if you're selling the project to the homeowner, being able to sound intelligent from that first conversation and saying, you know, look, I'd love to do this project.
04:44
Some things that we should discuss right away.
04:46
I see you have a steep slope, so there's going to be some site work.
04:49
I see that you're in the wetlands.
04:51
So look, we might not be able to do a full foundation.
04:54
It might be more of like on or Or whatever it is.
04:58
I see we're in the wildland urban interface, so we're going to need some fire resistant materials.
05:02
So A, it's good just to have that up front, no surprises for the homeowner.
05:06
But B, you're going to impress them.
05:08
you know, they're not, you're not the only one that they're calling.
05:10
and if you're going to put time into it, you want to win that deal?
05:13
Absolutely.
05:13
one of the takeaways or the reasons why builders have been connecting with you too, is to help with proposal generation and just to get that type of data or that info from the actual app, to a proposal or an estimate?
05:27
Yeah, well, builders use us in a few different ways.
05:30
that is a major use of it, especially for the builders that focus.
05:34
You know, there's builders that do a lot of different things.
05:36
Some of them do, the ones that focus just on accessory dwelling units, they need a process and they have their intake teams and their sales leads who are screening these calls.
05:45
And they use our tool to quickly figure out if that's a good match and to get something to the homeowner so that then when they go out in person and meet them, it's a much more productive conversation.
05:55
They also use us in different ways.
05:56
also put a light version on their websites for the homeowners to screen themselves and become leads and interact with the website and qualify themselves and educate themselves so that by the time they get to the point of talking to someone, they know quite a bit as well.
06:09
That makes sense.
06:10
Yeah.
06:10
what's.
06:10
What's your background, Avi?
06:11
Like, how did you, this, aha moment where you saw this, the gap in the industry and wanted to act on it?
06:16
I have a varied background, but most recently I've been working in real estate for, for some time now and as a real estate broker in the Boston area.
06:25
And what we come across again and again is just the lack of housing supply.
06:29
And you know, 10 years ago we thought that the housing prices were expensive.
06:33
Twenty years ago we thought they were expensive.
06:35
And now they just keep going up and we really see the effect on our communities.
06:39
It's hard for new people coming in.
06:41
It's hard for, even for people that are here already who are in a house by themselves and need to downsize.
06:47
There aren't so many options to go somewhere else, tie.
06:50
You end up with a gridlock situation, lots of young families delaying their plans.
06:55
And, you know, I was working with these people day in, day out.
06:58
I also volunteered, to help resettle some refugees.
07:01
And you know, it's hard enough finding housing for someone that has a job and is from here.
07:06
It's even harder finding any housing for someone that, has no, no network here, no credit, no job history.
07:13
We had one refugee who was sent to settled who someone had a carriage house in their, on their property and settled the family there.
07:21
And that sort of sparked a light bulb moment for me of we have lots of extra capacity, we just need to find ways to use it.
07:28
And know, that was after the withdrawal from Afghanistan for that particular family.
07:32
but, you know, looking forward, I think we'll have more of those types of situations for whatever reasons of environmental or political instability that people are going to come to these areas and just having some extra capacity, to handle that would be beneficial to our communities.
07:48
Absolutely.
07:48
catastrophes and just the terrible, some of the terrible reasons why people have to move.
07:53
But migration you know, for job searching way of life or just for fun, you know, quality of life.
07:59
I guess name of the game.
08:00
Like my parents, both came from the Bay Area, moved to Colorado and it's, you know, it's the same story that's been told from people in Texas and New York and everywhere.
08:12
Right.
08:13
just population boons and, and growth.
08:15
It's, it's crazy.
08:17
That's the most common use.
08:18
By the way, you mentioned your parents.
08:19
I wish I could have space here for my parents as well.
08:22
That's, that's one of the top reasons that people want to build these accessory units is for family.
08:28
And it's you know, talk about the sandwich generation taking care of both the kids and some, some families are taking care of the parents generation too.
08:35
And you know, when you're all spread out, just harder to handle that.
08:39
And I think a lot of families see the benefit of having everyone in multi generational housing.
08:44
Absolutely.
08:44
mean, I'm right there with you.
08:45
I would love to, but it would be, it would definitely be helpful to have more help that's, you know, closer like that.
08:53
Yeah, that's the dream.
08:54
but you're absolutely right too.
08:55
The Silver Tsunami is, know, that thing is not slowing down.
08:58
definitely, and it's an interesting, ripple effect, I'll say that.
09:01
Right.
09:02
and there's so many repercussions from that that fully appreciate or realize in the market yet.
09:07
But you know, you have this huge generation that is in their homes for A lot of them, it's their major asset they're, they're in an interesting situation where the life expectancy might be unknown.
09:16
they're in a community that they know and love, so they don't necessarily want to leave.
09:20
There also aren't so many options or affordable options for actually downsizing into a safe place for that generation.
09:28
And it creates a lot of pressure.
09:29
And at the same time it locks up housing.
09:32
The inability of that generation to move, otherwise, be good, for, for younger families.
09:37
And mean, it's one more reason why accessory dwelling units and just infill development in general, sort of that missing middle housing is, something that I think we'll see more and more attention paid to that in the coming years.
09:48
yeah.
09:49
100%.
09:50
Yeah.
09:50
The supply and demand of housing is so fascinating in the US it touches so many parts of our lives.
09:57
It's interesting.
09:58
yeah, to see what you're building if you're open to sharing a quick demo.
10:03
absolutely, That'd be killer.
10:05
here is our app, which we call Studio Pro.
10:08
can you see my screen okay?
10:09
Yep, yeah, sure can.
10:11
This is the tool that's for the builders where they subscribe to the service and they can type in any address to do a quick search.
10:18
I'm just going to pull up this property in California that I was looking at earlier today.
10:22
The reason I want to pull this one up is because it's touched by a few different layers of, special hazards.
10:28
it's lucky for us, less lucky for them.
10:32
page and we give a quick overview of what might be allowed there in terms of an accessory dwelling unit.
10:37
And we provide some basic property information here.
10:40
and then we'll dive into the detailed report in a minute.
10:43
But first I want to show some of the other things here.
10:46
we have this layers panel where you can turn on and off the map layers.
10:49
So for example, if I want to see just the fire hazard zone, I can show that, and see the outlines of that.
10:57
I could see the FEMA flood zones, or in this case, I know that this is in the Wildland Urban interface.
11:03
you can turn all that on.
11:04
We also these three foot contour lines.
11:07
So, you know, typically we were talking before about the builder might want to let the homeowner know you might need to do some site work if you Want to build something here.
11:14
So in this case, in this location we have elevation lines for every three foot change in elevation.
11:19
If you cross that line, that means you, you shift it.
11:21
So like here the elevation is 827ft.
11:24
Here is 830ft.
11:25
So the closer the lines are together, the steeper it is.
11:28
That's what that means.
11:29
So you can see it here.
11:30
There's a significant slope that's not necessarily obvious from a satellite view.
11:34
And that's why we include those, those lines.
11:37
So you see there's a draw, there's a spur here, a draw here.
11:40
This is the top of the hill.
11:41
I've definitely read my fair share of topos.
11:43
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
11:46
Is this coming from, do you know if it's coming from like a satellite or is it just, is it drone or.
11:53
We're combining a lot of different sources.
11:55
some from private sources, some of these are public, state level sources, some are national sources, some are even city level sources.
12:03
So it depends on the jurisdiction, but we're trying to get information from the best that we can in each location.
12:08
here, you know, one, we have one thing for the building parcels, we have another for the lot parcel, another for the topography, and one for each of the, of these layers as well.
12:18
and then what we do the AI analysis on, if I come into this detailed view here, the elevation lines off so we can see a little bit better.
12:26
is I'm in the detailed report and we have this report on the left so that you know right away, is this likely to qualify, for, for in this case for an accessory dwelling unit.
12:33
So we've used AI to analyze this particular municipality's zoning bylaw to pull out the most likely things that, that you need to know right away.
12:42
So in this case it's allowed by right, or as they say in California, by ministerial approval.
12:46
It's allowed for this property type.
12:48
It's allowed in this particular zone.
12:49
then we go into special considerations and we give the source for each.
12:52
So we detect that there's a theme of flood zone and the source, you can read more about it, the wildland urban interface, the fire hazard zone.
12:59
None of these prevent you from building, but it's good to know up front.
13:01
Yeah.
13:02
And then we go into the size limitations.
13:03
Whatever we detected was relevant for this municipality for this particular lot based on the zone.
13:09
So in this particular location we estimate to 1200 square feet.
13:12
We Also give you what we pulled out for this particular zone for the setbacks which are displayed with this red dashed line.
13:19
And then we also show some other guidance that we pulled out from the bylaw that we thought might be relevant in this case about height and owner occupancy.
13:27
We have a link here to see city fees calculations and a link to the bylaw so that this is pre feasibility, but when you're ready to go to full feasibility, you can continue there.
13:36
And then of course, summary of some state level things.
13:39
And then we also, the builders can upload their own floor plan, they can use ours, but they can also upload, their own and show this to the client and with that and make a PDF report and bring it to their meeting and they can drag it around and make a report that they bring that shows various placements and whatnot.
13:55
amazing.
13:55
It's super impressive what you guys have built.
13:58
This was the pro tool.
13:59
We also have the light version which, builders get both.
14:02
the version that they would put on their own websites and the builders love this.
14:06
I'm going to put in the same address here.
14:07
The builders love this because a typical builder site, you go and you see the about me section and the photos and whatever, and then the homeowner bounces in eight seconds.
14:17
whereas on here, because we don't show all the details, we say we found three environmental considerations on this lot.
14:23
Ask your builder for the full report and then they come in here.
14:26
first now I can.
14:27
sorry.
14:27
so here we are on the light version that builders put on their own website.
14:31
they could put this widget right on their home page and they can enter the address.
14:35
And what's cool here is homeowners on a typical builder site might bounce after eight seconds.
14:41
Whereas here they play on average for eight minutes.
14:44
because you can come in here and see the floor plans from the builder they love to see.
14:48
They turn on their satellite view, they play around with.
14:50
what if we put it here?
14:52
let me rotate it this way, let me try this plan.
14:55
and you can try lots of different things.
14:56
Then the homeowner's more likely to convert and to reach out to the builder.
15:02
The average conversion goes from eight seconds to eight minutes.
15:07
mean people love playing with their lot and it makes sense, right?
15:10
Like, here's an Interactive tool you have.
15:12
You can have real floor plans from the builder here and you can show it to someone.
15:17
You can, know, call your partner over and say, hey, what if we put it here?
15:20
no, no, I want to put it here.
15:22
What about this floor plan?
15:22
what was this one?
15:23
Let me look and see what this was.
15:25
the, this form, it you, qualify the builder qualify the homeowner.
15:30
You give them a little education about what it is that they're trying to build.
15:34
Amazing.
15:34
Now, we don't put all the zoning details here.
15:37
You'll notice for the lite version that builders put on their own websites, we don't put that because the whole point is we want the homeowner to call the builder.
15:45
So that's why we just say this property has factors.
15:47
know, we say three environmental special considerations affect this property versus on the full report.
15:52
the version for the, for the builder themselves, we, we spell it out on the professional tool.
15:57
So.
15:58
Smart.
15:58
Definitely makes sense.
15:59
I, one thing I was about when you were showing the terrain view the satellite view is, it'd be, it's already it so much more advanced than anything I've seen, but it would be really neat to be able to like almost heat map, or not even heat map, but show where, AI thinks the ADU would be best placed based off of the risks.
16:17
that's cool.
16:18
That's a cool idea.
16:19
We'll have to think about that.
16:20
Much easier said than done, I'm sure.
16:22
Yeah.
16:23
Yeah.
16:23
well, other things that we're adding for the cities that have it are things like the sewer availability the, the sewer lines, the water lines, even electrical lines, things like that.
16:33
So that you can consider that when you're talking to the homeowner about, you know, have you thought about putting it here?
16:37
you know, we can put it back there, but say, you know, we're going to have to do a lot more work to, to get the water back there.
16:43
Yeah, that makes sense.
16:44
how you guys are really taking on two of the industry's biggest challenges too, which is lead flow and maintaining just the relationship with leads and then also zoning.
16:55
You're literally doing a pincer approach for two of the biggest issues.
16:59
Thank you.
16:59
Yeah.
17:00
What we found from talking with builders that, the builders who are first getting into it are just mainly concerned with getting the leads.
17:06
And then once they have the leads, then it suddenly turns from, my goodness, I don't have enough leads to, my goodness, I can't handle the leads.
17:12
Help me handle the leads and get that more efficient answer to them.
17:16
And so that's sort of how we fell into it was we started really with, not with the lead part, but with the I do it part.
17:22
Give me the quick analysis and then, sort of naturally connected with that lead part.
17:27
Definitely makes sense.
17:28
Absolutely.
17:28
I know a handful of the people that I work with would love to have this on their sites.
17:34
They can soon.
17:35
We cover now, you know, all of California and New England.
17:39
But for anyone listening to this in the future, you should check us out because, we're.
17:43
We're expanding where the plan is to cover the whole us.
17:46
Yeah, that.
17:47
I can't wait for that.
17:48
That'll be really neat.
17:49
so I guess one other question I have is, you know, we're for someone who's, starting a business because lot.
17:56
You guys are relatively new, right?
17:58
yeah.
17:58
Do you have any, you know, quick tips or tricks in.
18:01
In terms of.
18:02
It could be anything, just anything off the cuff that comes to mind in terms of like, you know, how do you.
18:07
How do you make a small improvement day over day or week over week in your own business?
18:12
That's a great question because it really opens up to, a lot of different aspects.
18:16
But the one that comes to mind, most naturally to me is the quality of our team.
18:21
I'm just, always impressed by my co founders and the other people working with us, how hard everyone works.
18:27
And, you know, we push each other constantly to try and do better.
18:31
And I think that that is, something that maybe is hard to quantify.
18:35
but the idea of working with someone that's going to push you to do more.
18:38
I love that.
18:39
Absolutely.
18:40
It's so hard to, to identify too, when you're hiring or, you know, when you're having those initial conversations, when you.
18:47
Out of curiosity, like when you guys are hiring or when you are, you know, choosing who you're going to be working with, do you have like a framework or a methodology or anything, or even something as simple as, like, giving them homework to identify or to see how they think and how they work.
19:01
It's funny you're asking because I, am hiring someone now or I'm working on hiring someone now because we, are growing and we need some more help and you know, we're.
19:10
For me, it's a relatively new thing of hiring someone.
19:13
I do have some, some interns that are wonderful that we hired some student interns that work with us.
19:18
And what I did for them was, an interview first.
19:21
First you narrow down the resumes but then I had them come in for a trial day of you know, paid trial day.
19:28
But you know, here's the actual task.
19:30
Let's see how you do.
19:32
And I felt like that was fairly revealing.
19:34
I didn't expect the right answers on their first day, but more like the approach and do you give up or how far down the rabbit hole do you go?
19:41
And I thought that that was a pretty, that worked pretty well.
19:44
I'm super happy with the interns that we have.
19:46
And so now I'm just posted for a full time position for operations and growth manager and I think we'll probably try that same approach.
19:53
yeah, that's awesome.
19:55
That's a, that's pretty smart.
19:56
Especially when you can already vet, you know, the, the people ahead of time and just say here's a, you know, pretty extensive task.
20:04
I just want to see how you can think about it, how you'll approach it.
20:07
Yeah, yeah.
20:08
And it wasn't that, you know, like I said, there was no, I mean there was a right and a wrong answer, but I didn't necessarily expect the right answer.
20:14
It was more.
20:15
I wanted to see the thought process and the effort and just how far they can get in a few hours.
20:21
That's cool.
20:21
That's super cool.
20:22
out of curiosity, you guys use AI internally too?
20:26
with marketing and with coding and everything?
20:28
Yeah, more and more I think like everyone else, I use it a ton, just in my daily tasks.
20:32
and I think it's interesting.
20:36
I'm constantly finding new ways to use it to anything from writing helping me write better marketing emails or sales emails or helping to enrich data or even just checking for errors or sanity checking a data set.
20:50
I found it has been super useful.
20:52
absolutely.
20:53
Yeah, I'm with you.
20:54
The use cases just seem to keep on exponentially growing.
20:57
I know our coders it more as well.
21:00
Just helping with some of the checking of the pull requests and things like that.
21:05
Yeah.
21:06
Well, hey, know I loved the demo.
21:10
I know people are going to be super excited to get their hands on it too.
21:14
how can how can they get a hold of you?
21:15
How can they get connected with you guys?
21:17
Visit futurelot.com and you can fill out something.
21:21
You can fill out the form there.
21:22
You can even sign up for a free account and do three free searches.
21:26
You can upgrade your account there.
21:27
You can also email me.
21:28
I'm Avi aviuturelot.com.
21:31
and especially if you're in an area that we don't cover yet, let me know that you want us there.
21:36
And, you know, we're planning to go to the whole us.
21:38
But tell me why your area is, or should be our next spot.
21:41
Yeah, I love that.
21:42
Make a little, competition out of it.
21:44
Yeah.
21:45
cool.
21:45
Well, thank you so much for coming on, Avi.
21:47
Really enjoyed our conversation, and, love the show and tell, too.
21:50
Really impressed with what you guys are doing.
21:52
Thank you, Grant.
21:52
Very much enjoyed our conversation together, and thank you for having me.
21:56
Absolutely.
21:57
We'll talk soon.
21:58
Talk soon.
21:58
Look, my entire mission with this series is to see talented builders and business owners stop getting run over by operational chaos and to actually start building the business they deserve.
22:10
If this episode gave you even one tool or 1% of a tool to fight back, please share it with a fellow builder.
22:16
Help me spread the word.
22:17
That is all I ask, so make sure you subscribe so you're ready for the next one.
22:21
Until then, systems scale your success.
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